Tuning...community pool

[oo3menace]

I was hoping I might be able to start this thread as to anyone who tunes or dabbles with tuning, to see what kind of setups or info or knowledge we can all add to this. I know Jay will be able to write a book but knowledge is power...

1.Does anyone think running their FPR w/o the boost reference to be more stable than with?

2.What is everyone's average ignition timing advance and where is it most critical (starting rpm) for the curve to advance to redline efficiently? Max timing #'s and what rpm?

3.Is anyone using a datalogger or scan gauge? reviews? Can you datalog from a scan gauge to a laptop?

4.What things are most important to you in terms of tuning besides A/F's?

5.Does anyone else have an issue when using a piggy back with two maps...you make one for street and one for race gas...but with the boost reference on the FPR, in low boost your not increasing the psi on the FPR as high and it tends to run leaner down low @ let's say 13psi(low boost setting) as opposed to the normal 20psi (high boost)? Would you say just to richen up the car in high boost or tune the car for low boost and see where it's at in high boost? Is this a necessary sacrifice? I know a few of you guys have this issue (Brian, Beau)? Any input?

6.Engine knock #'s?

[DaFlyyOnDaWall]

i saw my name but still can't comprehend the Q. i'll have more input after my FRL next month.

EDIT: OK, I got u now. Tune for high boost and see where low boost AFR's fall. This should be more helpful to EGT's which is the answer to #4.

[oo3menace]

i saw my name but still can't comprehend the Q. i'll have more input after my FRL next month.
EDIT: OK, I got u now. Tune for high boost and see where low boost AFR's fall. This should be more helpful to EGT's which is the answer to #4.
I saw a thread on the other forums about you running lean with your low boost setting...that's what I'm referring to, when you tune for high boost you run lean in low boost, this is due to the variable boost reference on the regulator...I didn't know you don't have a return.

[DaFlyyOnDaWall]

nope, no return line here.

and my answer comes from talking to a few people over there about it. lance would be a good source, too.

[N2MB]

I was hoping I might be able to start this thread as to anyone who tunes or dabbles with tuning, to see what kind of setups or info or knowledge we can all add to this. I know Jay will be able to write a book but knowledge is power...
1.Does anyone think running their FPR w/o the boost reference to be more stable than with?
2.What is everyone's average ignition timing advance and where is it most critical (starting rpm) for the curve to advance to redline efficiently? Max timing #'s and what rpm?
3.Is anyone using a datalogger or scan gauge? reviews? Can you datalog from a scan gauge to a laptop?
4.What things are most important to you in terms of tuning besides A/F's?
5.Does anyone else have an issue when using a piggy back with two maps...you make one for street and one for race gas...but with the boost reference on the FPR, in low boost your not increasing the psi on the FPR as high and it tends to run leaner down low @ let's say 13psi(low boost setting) as opposed to the normal 20psi (high boost)? Would you say just to richen up the car in high boost or tune the car for low boost and see where it's at in high boost? Is this a necessary sacrifice? I know a few of you guys have this issue (Brian, Beau)? Any input?
6.Engine knock #'s?
hmmmm seems like the tuning section is coming to life lately...cool

well i probably could ramble on and on but ill give you a quick opinion then we can take it from there
1.Does anyone think running their FPR w/o the boost reference to be more stable than with?
running a fpr off a boost reference is the best way to do it on an srt for a few reasons..these motors are very low compression and out of boost there really isnt much cylinder pressure that requires the need for alot of fuel.when you run a regulator off a vacuum source anytime you flare the throttle the regulator diaphragm loses vacuum and increases the fuel rate.this is bad during part throttle conditions and throttle tip in because the tune goes really rich.one way to aid in a turbo spool up is by leaning out the air fuel ratio.by raising the fuel pressure you are working against its design so it makes it more difficult and makes the car choke on fuel.you could tune it out but it would literally be a full time job doing so.any pcm trying to control fuel curve will see adjustments and try to correct.the biggest problem with that is the pcm is using other inputs that you have no control over to adjust that fuel.for example you could spend all day trying to tune out a rich condition and finally get it right and the sun goes down and temp changes 10 degrees and there goes your day

2.What is everyone's average ignition timing advance and where is it most critical (starting rpm) for the curve to advance to redline efficiently? Max timing #'s and what rpm?
typically you will idle somewhere around 8-10 of advance.this is an extremely complicated algorythm that is controlled by the pcm..you can clamp map voltage and increase timing advance but the pcm will still pwn all.when just in a cruise mode you will have around 40 degrees of timing,as soon as you mash the pedal and spool up to say around 18 psi you will have around 25-30 degrees of timing and towards redline hopefully hold around 25 degrees.this is a really difficult question to answer because every motor snd setup is different.you can have two cars built exactly the same and they will react different.

3.Is anyone using a datalogger or scan gauge? reviews? Can you datalog from a scan gauge to a laptop?scan guage is awesome! most scanners will have datalogging capabilities.i really like the scan guage for tuning,it gives me most of the information i need to see that is available on the bus.THE MORE INFORMATION YOU HAVE TUNING THE BETTER OFF YOU ARE!

4.What things are most important to you in terms of tuning besides A/F's?

if its a piggyback i look at afrs and set a base tune.then raise my boost till i see where the car performs well.from there i fine tune the boost to find where i am getting maximum timing.with every pull its important to see what your intake temps are doing.a heatsoaked motor will make less power and fatten up the tune.once you find your optimal boost and timing point you can tweak your afrs to where you get maximum power.tuning standalones are a completely different vegetable and tuning is a completely different proccess.im only refferring to a pcm controlled car with a piggyback

5.Does anyone else have an issue when using a piggy back with two maps...you make one for street and one for race gas...but with the boost reference on the FPR, in low boost your not increasing the psi on the FPR as high and it tends to run leaner down low @ let's say 13psi(low boost setting) as opposed to the normal 20psi (high boost)? Would you say just to richen up the car in high boost or tune the car for low boost and see where it's at in high boost? Is this a necessary sacrifice? I know a few of you guys have this issue (Brian, Beau)? Any input

personally i dont believe in high and low boost settings.but thats me and everyone knows what my sn stands for.if your car is set up correctly and you are reading correct map then it shouldnt matter what boost you are at.brian uses an afc and when you tune load based and run low boost it doesnt think that the car is above the 80% threshold and the pcm is controlling the tune.you can try to lower the hi throttle setting to where your map voltage falls within that threshold.you should also have a seperate map for race gas.anytime you throw a higher octane fuel the air fuels will go fat which will require retuning immediately.HAVING 2 MAPS DOES NOT MEAN YOUR CAR WILL NOT HAVE TO BE TWEAKED.AT ALL TIMES YOU MUST KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR TUNE AND ADJUST FOR THAT DAY,WEATHER,BAROMETER AND AMBIENT TEMP ETC..


6.Engine knock #'s?[/QUOTE]
this is a touchy subject and varies..not all knock voltage is knock.ive driven around with a oscilliscope on the car and watched what the knock sensor does.there is tons of noise on the circuit and the pcm will normally filter out the junk.i was pretty surprised when i saw how much there really was.for example on a knock sensor that is operating normally on an engine that is not producing knock you will see alot of voltage spikes.the spikes that you are looking for are inductive spikes that ive seen go almost .75 of a volt.there also negative spikes that dont mean anything because it is an ac signal
Knock sensors contain a piezoelectric material which constantly vibrates and sends an input voltage to the PCM while the engine operates. As the intensity of the crystal's vibration increases, the knock sensor output voltage also increases..
the knock sensor also is a little more complicated than that though,it also uses a long and short term program.it will always look at the long term timing table and order the coilpacks accordingly.it will make most of its adjustments according to short term memory for quicker response and the state of operation at the current moment


ok i need to get back to work

[N2MB]

i saw my name but still can't comprehend the Q. i'll have more input after my FRL next month.
EDIT: OK, I got u now. Tune for high boost and see where low boost AFR's fall. This should be more helpful to EGT's which is the answer to #4.
nope, egt's are a direct result of how the car is running.although its important information its an afterthought.egts are critical information on a stock turbo setup or a really crazy setup where you are running extremely high pressure.quite frankly the stock setup is the WRONG setup.when you start pushing the envelope with power it will show how inferior the stock setup really is.the car was designed to make a lil power but yet REMAIN WITHIN FEDERAL GUIDELINES.they werent designed to make the power that most of us push out of them,thats why egts can get so high,a turbo needs to breathe,not choke.choke is exactly what it does.

[N2MB]

wtf?? whered everyone go?:hide_behi

[oo3menace]

I knew you'd be able to add a ton of information ;)

1.In reference to the high/low boost, I'm talking about daily driving, on the profec II EBC my low setting is for normal cruisin/launching on streets and the high is for racing...when you switch to low boost and WOT car seems to run a bit on the lean side...I thought this was due to the boost reference for EG.

FPR set @ 45psi + 20lbs of boost=total Fuel pressure of 75psi @ WOT
FPR set @ 45psi + 13lbs of boost=total Fuel pressure of 68psi @ WOT

Is this n00bish, and if so sorry, I'm new at this? :)

2. This might be wrong too depending on your answer to #1 but, about running the FPR off boost reference or capping I WAS NOT referring to a vac reference...just like setting the pressure like stock to give that pressure the entire time? Any thoughts on that? For EG.

Setting pressure w/ boost ref.= FPR to xxPSI + xxlbs of boost=total FP
Setting pressure w/o boost ref.=FPR set @ xxPSI=total FP

Tuning>me

[oo3menace]

wtf?? whered everyone go?:hide_behi
Reading and trying to understand what you wrote to the best of my ability...and then trying to clarify with myself what you said, then typing a response to see if I can better understand you :D

[Bungles]

Still reading

[N2MB]

I knew you'd be able to add a ton of information ;)
1.In reference to the high/low boost, I'm talking about daily driving, on the profec II EBC my low setting is for normal cruisin/launching on streets and the high is for racing...when you switch to low boost and WOT car seems to run a bit on the lean side...I thought this was due to the boost reference for EG.
FPR set @ 45psi + 20lbs of boost=total Fuel pressure of 75psi @ WOT
FPR set @ 45psi + 13lbs of boost=total Fuel pressure of 68psi @ WOT
Is this n00bish, and if so sorry, I'm new at this? :)
2. This might be wrong too depending on your answer to #1 but, about running the FPR off boost reference or capping I WAS NOT referring to a vac reference...just like setting the pressure like stock to give that pressure the entire time? Any thoughts on that? For EG.
Setting pressure w/ boost ref.= FPR to xxPSI + xxlbs of boost=total FP
Setting pressure w/o boost ref.=FPR set @ xxPSI=total FP
Tuning>me
well youre in the right neighborhood,the only factor that youre not looking at is the fact you are running return line.if you had no return then you could assume that would be the result but the fact that you have one youre pressure is correct but the volume is higher.it works just like electricity,you can have a certain frequency but the amplitude is what matters.take two fuel systems..one with a return and one without.the one wih the return will flow a higher amount of fuel due to less restriction in the system.take a jar and put the fuel line in it and actuate the pump for 10 seconds.atg the same psi actuate the systme with a return and it will fill it more.it has a higher volumetric efficiency.anyway to try and answer your question...knowing what you have in your car and if the fuel system is installed correctly you should not have any leaning out issues.the answer probably lies in the smt6

[N2MB]

Reading and trying to understand what you wrote to the best of my ability...and then trying to clarify with myself what you said, then typing a response to see if I can better understand you :D
well the only stupid question is the one that wasnt asked.if you dont understand something just spit it out and ill try to say it in a way you might understand.to this day i am still learning..i will never stop learning cause i dont know everything lol..im stupid compared to some guys i know

[Bungles]

Ok. I got a question for ya...

Using 110 octane, at idle I was pushing a lot of smoke out my tailpipes. When I revved the engine to like 3k rpms, it started to sputter. It felt like the plugs were fouling.

Could this be that I had too much fuel pressure for running 110 or was that just a function of the 110 octane being so rich?

Should I lean out the idle when that happens?

Inquiring minds want to know :thumb:

[oo3menace]

well youre in the right neighborhood,the only factor that youre not looking at is the fact you are running return line.if you had no return then you could assume that would be the result but the fact that you have one youre pressure is correct but the volume is higher.it works just like electricity,you can have a certain frequency but the amplitude is what matters.take two fuel systems..one with a return and one without.the one wih the return will flow a higher amount of fuel due to less restriction in the system.take a jar and put the fuel line in it and actuate the pump for 10 seconds.atg the same psi actuate the systme with a return and it will fill it more.it has a higher volumetric efficiency.anyway to try and answer your question...knowing what you have in your car and if the fuel system is installed correctly you should not have any leaning out issues.the answer probably lies in the smt6
I don't actually know if I will or will not have this issue, but I thought people have said that they have?

[NYYDYNASTY]

<--- still trying to read jay's original post lol

[N2MB]

Ok. I got a question for ya...
Using 110 octane, at idle I was pushing a lot of smoke out my tailpipes. When I revved the engine to like 3k rpms, it started to sputter. It felt like the plugs were fouling.
Could this be that I had too much fuel pressure for running 110 or was that just a function of the 110 octane being so rich? Should I lean out the idle when that happens?
Inquiring minds want to know :thumb:
you pretty much answered that yourself...thaqts exactly what happened the fuel charge was too rich to ignite.there was no load on the motor so its not building boost.more boost=more cylinder pressure,you need cylinder pressure in order to burn that fuel.high octane fuel is way more efficient than lower octane.however it requires more compression to do so.engines are designed to work on a certain octane level and will have the opposite effect that you would think on a smaller engine for example,take a economy motor that has a reccommended octane level of 89.if you put 93 in it it will start to ping because there isnt enough compression to ignite the fuel charge.well with higher compression motors they operate better with higher octane levels.
so anyhoo when you dump race gas into the car it will take the pcm a lil bit to compensate for the density of the fuel charge.and under wot yes it takes alot of leaning out

[N2MB]

<--- still trying to read jay's original post lol
its ok chris..most times i have a hard time reading my own posts,i verbally vomit alot..i think its mostly due to the fact that i might ooooohh butterfly

[NYYDYNASTY]

its ok chris..most times i have a hard time reading my own posts,i verbally vomit alot..i think its mostly due to the fact that i might ooooohh butterflyi hate people who are oooh shiny things

[Bungles]

I kind of figured that but I was saying "why should I lean out idle :dunno:" guess I need to with the 110.

[N2MB]

I kind of figured that but I was saying "why should I lean out idle :dunno:" guess I need to with the 110.
you dont have to is what im saying,it takes the pcm a little while to realize that its not taking enough out.if you put it in watch the wideband and you will see it start to lean out.as soon as you step on the gas it will go dead rich again because it moved to a different cell on the map.it will keep doing that until it sees response in every cell.after you put race gas in it its always good to drive it around a little bit and let the pcm see a bunch of different cells on the map and adjust.thats why it takes a few runs before you see the benfits of running race gas.

[Bungles]

I remember you telling me that about the cells. Just didn't put 2 and 2 together.

Plus I only got 2 runs in. Definitely not enough time for the PCM to relearn.

[oo3menace]

What is considered an "optimal" intake air charge? What degree? What's considered poor?

[Bungles]

:popcorn:

[N2MB]

What is considered an "optimal" intake air charge? What degree? What's considered poor?
well for one,when you touch your intercooler and the cold side is hot thats the first indicator,second when your intake temps are above ambient temps that means heat is soaking across the turbo to the compressor side and the fmic isnt doing its job because too much heat in the engine bay

[Bungles]

Friggin SRIs!!!!!

I got crazy mad HEAT SOAK!!!!

[oo3menace]

Friggin SRIs!!!!!
I got crazy mad HEAT SOAK!!!!
What effect if any does a CAI have in terms of this? How much cooler can intake air temps be? I didn't think that a CAI made that much of a difference accross the board...

[Bungles]

What effect if any does a CAI have in terms of this? How much cooler can intake air temps be? I didn't think that a CAI made that much of a difference accross the board...

I guess the only way you could really tell would be to have some sort of thermometer at the entry point of the CAI and the SRI. That would give you an idea of the air temps coming into the inlet.

What am I, Bill Nye the Science Guy? :dunno:

[oo3menace]

I wasn't asking you specifically and no need for a thermo, just use what you got and hook up a scanner or scan gauge and look at intake temps, wouldn't you?

[Bungles]

I wasn't asking you specifically and no need for a thermo, just use what you got and hook up a scanner or scan gauge and look at intake temps, wouldn't you?

I'm just the driver :wave:

[DrEdSrT4]

wow this is a great thread.. jay's posts are kicking my brain's ass right now.. hard to follow it.. i wish i had all the tools and gauges to check for timing,knock etc

PS. i dont see how a CAI can hurt.. i mean.. when it sucks in air its supposed to be nice "COOL" air from the ground but that nice cool air is going straight into a hair dryer thats a 1000 degrees.. BUT it wouldnt be pulling ALREADY scorching hot air from the motor? I say theres no REAL difference.. ive always felt strong with a SRI..

[Grifter]

wow this is a great thread.. jay's posts are kicking my brain's ass right now.. hard to follow it.. i wish i had all the tools and gauges to check for timing,knock etc
PS. i dont see how a CAI can hurt.. i mean.. when it sucks in air its supposed to be nice "COOL" air from the ground but that nice cool air is going straight into a hair dryer thats a 1000 degrees.. BUT it wouldnt be pulling ALREADY scorching hot air from the motor? I say theres no REAL difference.. ive always felt strong with a SRI..

I thought the same thing Dan and was actually going to bring it up in my auto class when we going over forced induction. I figured the air is going to heat up to a certain degrees and then be forced into the engine. I think it was in that months Sport Compact Car that there was a "Techno Babble" article on it that stated that the air only gets heated up to a certain degrees. So if the air coming from a CAI is colder than a SRI than it will continue to be colder throughout the path into the engine.

[DrEdSrT4]

I thought the same thing Dan and was actually going to bring it up in my auto class when we going over forced induction. I figured the air is going to heat up to a certain degrees and then be forced into the engine. I think it was in that months Sport Compact Car that there was a "Techno Babble" article on it that stated that the air only gets heated up to a certain degrees. So if the air coming from a CAI is colder than a SRI than it will continue to be colder throughout the path into the engine.

yes this is true.. would take that colder air longer to heat up to 4000000 degrees that the turbo is hahah..in turn keeping the intake temps down a touch altogether.. but like i said.. people have dynoed them and get like 2whp difference.. :dunno:

[N2MB]

well thats a pretty good question.when dealing with any motor f/i or n/a cool air will make it run better.the cooler the better.now some people get a little mislead on how a turbo works.the turbo is driven by the exhaust turbine but its not the actual exhaust stream that is going through the motor.a cai will give cooler air because it is further away from the engine bay.

old school racers like me :) never had to really deal with cai and sri's.we were always trying to get into the "clean air zone" .if you look at a pro-stock you will notice their hood scoops are crazy high.obviously a hood scoop like that would look pretty retarded(although some ricers might like it so we have to resort to the next best thing...anywhere besides the motor.

a cai will bring much cooler air into the motor because a short ram is sitting in heat.there are some guys that think differently but you cannot argue science.

ok back to the turbo thing,your intake draws air into the compressor housing and pressurizing it through the compressor outlet and on down the hot side and through the intercooler and up the charge pipe and to grandmas house we go...the exhaust turbine is only making the compressor side turn so the actual exhaust air isnt coming through the motor.so to make a long story short the colder the air coming in the better .the heat that comes from the turbo is soaked across and heats up the compressor housing so it will make it hot.a pos intercooler will not have enough cooling capabilities as a good one and will let that heat soak come in the uppipe and intake temps go on the rise.so you would think to ourself at this point why dont i just put the biggest front mount i can find right? wrong...size does not matter,efficiency does.this is one of the reasons why i tell people go with an e.d. fmic ..they cool great but thats another story thats kind of off topic i guess.

[N2MB]

yes this is true.. would take that colder air longer to heat up to 4000000 degrees that the turbo is hahah..in turn keeping the intake temps down a touch altogether.. but like i said.. people have dynoed them and get like 2whp difference.. :dunno:
i dont believe that to be true...i could do a couple dyno pulls on a sri swap it out and do a couple pulls with a cai and im sure i would show lower numbers only because engine temps are now higher from the previous pulls and there is more heat soak.i would have to see those charts along with ALL of the information like humidity,baro,amb temp,and iat to make a believer out of me..i dont argue with science.plus lets just say it may have made another 2whp even though i dont believe it

[N2MB]

bump to get back on topic

[DaFlyyOnDaWall]

so are you pro CAI or SRI? dude you're like an encyclopedia. i love it

[N2MB]

so are you pro CAI or SRI? dude you're like an encyclopedia. i love it
im pro cai lets get back to the tuning pool

[oo3menace]

I'm surprised that Lance hasn't added into this pool, and that people don't have more questions about tuning...Doesn't anyone else want to know/learn something?

[SPECJ]

I'm surprised that Lance hasn't added into this pool, and that people don't have more questions about tuning...Doesn't anyone else want to know/learn something?

Jay and I agree on almost everything for the most part... I havent had much time to dig into everyones post and add my own thoughts... all I have to say is that I am making another sticky like my fuel pressure post that will contain most of the information from here, but in one cohesive thought...

[oo3menace]

Jay and I agree on almost everything for the most part... I havent had much time to dig into everyones post and add my own thoughts... all I have to say is that I am making another sticky like my fuel pressure post that will contain most of the information from here, but in one cohesive thought...
awesome can't wait....

[Sauce]

this thread is awsome.............Jay.......you're my hero!
talk about a plethora of knowledge!

[oo3menace]

What is considered an "optimal" intake air charge? What degree? What's considered poor?
I've heard anything under 150* is decent after driving or doing consecutive pulls i.e. dynoing or tuning...just an fyi if anyone has a scan gauge/tool or datalogger to know what temps to look for...outside air temps of course will make this vary overall...

[N2MB]

I've heard anything under 150* is decent after driving or doing consecutive pulls i.e. dynoing or tuning...just an fyi if anyone has a scan gauge/tool or datalogger to know what temps to look for...outside air temps of course will make this vary overall...
at 150 youre pulling mad timing...way too hot

[oo3menace]

at 150 youre pulling mad timing...way too hot

I had asked that question earlier and you didn't answer it so I figured I'd look to see what other people were running...that was abotu average on Stock IC, Stock Intake, Stock exhaust etc...so then what temps should you be looking for?

[N2MB]

on the average of somewhere between ambient temp and a little above.

[Bungles]

Lean in 2nd is my topic.

So my challenge now is to be able to get the air/fuel in 2nd gear ideal enough to not significantly affect 3rd and 4th gear. Since the last track night, I noticed that my afr's are about 12.2-12.4 in 2nd and getting into 3rd is 11.9-12.0 and 4th is about 11.8-11.9.

The car pulls hard in 3rd and 4th giving me a 110 trap but I'm guessing possibly 2nd gear is hurting me being that it's leaner. I really haven't been paying attention to 1st or 2nd gear cause you go through them so quickly but I'm sure it's playing a part in the whole run if you're running too rich or too lean.

My guess is that the PCM sees the lean spike and then backs off in 2nd. Once I get into 3rd & 4th the afr's are much better and the PCM normalizes.

So I guess my question is what are the ideal AFRs by gear for a 1320 run? (Knowing I'm limited with the DTEC-FC of course.)

Any suggestions besides Hozay telling me to get a big turbo already??

[oo3menace]

I was wondering the same thing but I don't think with an analog map similar to our setups that that can occur :( I have been looking into the DTEC FCBC for this very reason, or a quad stage boost controller...a hi/lo boost switch could help, but being that we can only actively use one fuel map at a time I don't see how this is possible without intense tuning sessions. On the ppq I have the ability to switch between two maps (A/B usually used for race gas) while driving via a switch (toggle) but have not yet experimented with this feature in conjunction with using the hi/lo switch on my boost controller...tuning in 2nd gear is very dificult due to engine load fluctuations due to tire spin as well, so even if you wanted to optimize 2nd you would be sacrificing 4th, by tuning down 3rd to run safer/richer. In my instance if I used the low boost setting and tuned map A on the ppq for optimal 1st and 2nd gears and then the high boost and map B for 3rd and 4th I might effectively defeat this obsticle...but I still need more time and thought into this effort.

[Bungles]

I was able to get my tune pretty locked in for this past Friday. I'm pretty happy now and the car seems to run reall good. Trapping 111 on the stock turbo isn't that bad :D

Eithercase, I'll look to get the FCBC anyway since I want control over boost by gear.

[DrEdSrT4]

I was able to get my tune pretty locked in for this past Friday. I'm pretty happy now and the car seems to run reall good. Trapping 111 on the stock turbo isn't that bad :D
Eithercase, I'll look to get the FCBC anyway since I want control over boost by gear.

Jeff theres something lingering elsewhere with your car that i cant seem to figure out.. yes you trap 111 but you ran a better ET with 5mph less on your trap but equal 60's.. and im sure the 330s were the same as well. Your car is stumbling somewhere, with a 111 trap and 1.7 60's you should be blowin 12.2s all day going by the way you drive.. i mean i know your are spinning your tires even with ur slicks.. but you are still pulling the 60' times.. which is what counts.. idk i wish i knew more about tuning and dtec to be able to play with one.. i hope to get a dtec 1 day..maybe in like 2015... :mad: :cry: then ill play with it

[N2MB]

you will go lean if you are spinning the tires because the road load is less.thats usually the biggest indicator that you are spinning the tires

[Bungles]

I'll need to work on not spinning the tires the next time I run. :D

Dan, my car "should" be doing alot of things but there are so many variables that are affecting my times. I can't really complain for what I have in the car. She'll come around and low 12's will be in my possession.

[richierich]

hey jeff i should be all set up with dtec and the same set up as you except for stock injectors instead of 750s and we can kind of compare if want the only thing is i might get form of injection and a 2 step also