View Full Version : Tuning? Aem uego + Safc.
If im tuning in second gear on the street ( I know it should be 3rd or 4th ) But its kind of hard to do a decent amount of 3rd and 4th gear pulls and not get cought. I'm spiking 19.5-20lbs and by redline my a/f is 11.8-11.9 with no fuel correction. in 3rd gear its 11.4-11.6. And 4th is a little lower. Does that sound about right? Or should i be spiking a little lower to get my a/f a little lower in second.
hozay09
05-09-06, 01:21 AM
mods?
Stage one
Agp wastegate actuator
injen sri
aem uego
safc II
jmb hard pipes w/ hks ssqv
3" Turbo back
msd 8.5mm wires
agp solid mounts
cca fmic
Pretty sure thats it, if i think of anything else ill post it.
hozay09
05-09-06, 01:35 AM
What are you holding to redline? Your spiking pretty high for not having larger injectors or a return line. A/F looks safe but i'm more concerned if your pulling timing up top and/or shooting your EGT's thru the roof.
Holding 15lbs to redline.
DrEdSrT4
05-09-06, 03:51 AM
hes fine.. hozay.. his EGTs arent gonna do ANYTHING with 11.9 afrs and only 15psi to redline
PLUS if his SAFCII is hooked up correctly his timing situation is fine as well.. get a return line or FPR mod and crank the boost up..tune it and run some F'in 12s bro!
boostedneon04
05-09-06, 01:26 PM
ok quick update on rpcs car..he just called me and said he lowerd the boost to 17lbs and put the afc back to zero no fuel being pulled and his airfuel in second shot to 12.8 and then the car stumbled and backfired..any1 know whats wrong? with no fuel being pulled and the boost set at 17lbs its sumbling and backfiring like crazy..any ideas?
DrEdSrT4
05-09-06, 01:28 PM
ok quick update on rpcs car..he just called me and said he lowerd the boost to 17lbs and put the afc back to zero no fuel being pulled and his airfuel in second shot to 12.8 and then the car stumbled and backfired..any1 know whats wrong? with no fuel being pulled and the boost set at 17lbs its sumbling and backfiring like crazy..any ideas?
yeah its leaning out.. haha add more fuel 12.8 is too high
boostedneon04
05-09-06, 02:03 PM
yeah its leaning out.. haha add more fuel 12.8 is too high
i think it might be a problem with the afc..if his boost is lowered and hes not pulling anyfuel at all why would his af go to 12.8 shouldnt they be lower around mid to high 10s..thats what they were before he pulled any fuel and he was on 19lbs then
i think it might be a problem with the afc..if his boost is lowered and hes not pulling anyfuel at all why would his af go to 12.8 shouldnt they be lower around mid to high 10s..thats what they were before he pulled any fuel and he was on 19lbs then
this was while spinning second in the rain, dont know if that makes a difference
mo'sSRT4
05-09-06, 02:42 PM
Take your car to a person that knows what they are doing before you blow your motor up.
yeah its leaning out.. haha add more fuel 12.8 is too high
he can't add fuel, he's on stock injectors. you can only take away with the stock fuel system.
you can not go leaner if you added fuel and dropped the boost. 12.8 a/f is normal if you're spinning your tires in the rain, your wideband is not reading accurately. when you hook up your a/f will read correctly. the 12.8 a/f was that redline or while you were spinning in your power band?. try doing some pulls on a nice dry day and take mo's advice. if your hesitant about what you're doing you are better off taking it to a professional who has done this before
boostedneon04
05-09-06, 05:26 PM
he can't add fuel, he's on stock injectors. you can only take away with the stock fuel system.
you can not go leaner if you added fuel and dropped the boost. 12.8 a/f is normal if you're spinning your tires in the rain, your wideband is not reading accurately. when you hook up your a/f will read correctly. the 12.8 a/f was that redline or while you were spinning in your power band?. try doing some pulls on a nice dry day and take mo's advice. if your hesitant about what you're doing you are better off taking it to a professional who has done this before
im going to call him now and let him know i was thinking the same thing about the spining and for any1 thats wondering this isnt about my car just a fellow ny guys car that had called to ask me why his a\f was soo high..thanks jay
DrEdSrT4
05-09-06, 05:47 PM
he can't add fuel, he's on stock injectors. you can only take away with the stock fuel system.
you can not go leaner if you added fuel and dropped the boost. 12.8 a/f is normal if you're spinning your tires in the rain, your wideband is not reading accurately. when you hook up your a/f will read correctly. the 12.8 a/f was that redline or while you were spinning in your power band?. try doing some pulls on a nice dry day and take mo's advice. if your hesitant about what you're doing you are better off taking it to a professional who has done this before
:doh:
no shit, i meant put a retun line on it :lol:
prolly shoulda said that :rofl:
Yeah do a fuel pump and return line and you will have more fuel than you will know what to do with :D
hozay09
05-09-06, 06:16 PM
hes fine.. hozay.. his EGTs arent gonna do ANYTHING with 11.9 afrs and only 15psi to redline
PLUS if his SAFCII is hooked up correctly his timing situation is fine as well.. get a return line or FPR mod and crank the boost up..tune it and run some F'in 12s bro!
umm sir, EGT's also take effect when spiking 20psi unless you did not already know that. Thats more to worry about then holding 15 at redline. The SAFC is not gonna maintain his timing with out the proper fuel.
DrEdSrT4
05-09-06, 06:20 PM
umm sir, EGT's also take effect when spiking 20psi unless you did not already know that. Thats more to worry about then holding 15 at redline. The SAFC is not gonna maintain his timing with out the proper fuel.
yes im well aware SIR, but 20 psi is well in our stock turbos efficiency.. and its only a SPIKE.. what he should do is get some fuel mods and he could even crank the boost up a tad more.
hozay09
05-09-06, 06:22 PM
yes im well aware SIR, but 20 psi is well in our stock turbos efficiency.. and its only a SPIKE.. what he should do is get some fuel mods and he could even crank the boost up a tad more.
20psi is NOT in the efficiency if read with a stock 2 bar map sensor which reads 18psi. Anyway, listen to Dred. Spike 20psi all day on your stg 0 and give me a call when your turbo takes a crap.
DrEdSrT4
05-09-06, 06:38 PM
20psi is NOT in the efficiency if read with a stock 2 bar map sensor which reads 18psi. Anyway, listen to Dred. Spike 20psi all day on your stg 0 and give me a call when your turbo takes a crap.
hes not Stage 0 hes Stage 1.. and yes hes pulling timing up top but who doesnt.. he just needs more fuel and get a good tune in with his safcII is all and he will be fine
mo'sSRT4
05-09-06, 06:44 PM
Why would you want to spike 20psi when it is not doing anything except causing your EGT's to go up and making the ECU pull timing?
It would make more sense if he was to spike 18 and hold 16 to red line. I would go little richer then 11.9 to redline. i would do something like 11.4 to 11.6 to redline. It is starting to warm out in east cost keep that in mind as well. weather makes a big difference when it comes to tunning.
boostedneon04
05-09-06, 06:47 PM
Why would you want to spike 20psi when it is not doing anything except causing your EGT's to go up and making the ECU pull timing?
It would make more sense if he was to spike 18 and hold 16 to red line. I would go little richer then 11.9 to redline. i would do something like 11.4 to 11.6 to redline. It is starting to warm out in east cost keep that in mind as well. weather makes a big difference when it comes to tunning.
i know just what ur talking about when i first got my car back it was 11.1 to redline now it has jumped to 11.3-4 sumtimes 11.2
i know just what ur talking about when i first got my car back it was 11.1 to redline now it has jumped to 11.3-4 sumtimes 11.2
Ok, so on stage one with the mods i listed an 18spike W/ 15-16 hold and 11.4-11.6 in 3rd gear would be fine?
And im not unsure about tuning the car, but I had just put the wideband in and this is the first time i spun second in the rain with it in and just got a little worried.
Oh my, this thread is a mess.
First, doing second gear pulls is like having sex with an apple. You can do it yes, but it far more painful than necessary. If you are going to do it, do it right.
You should only be tuning in 3/4 gear, and if you are tuning in those gears, you need to do atleast one full pull in each gear after your final tune to make sure that you are not running to lean in 3rd. The lower the gear, the higher the A/F's. Dont do second gear pulls, there will be no accuracy due to wheel spin, wheel hop, knock retard due to excessive vibration, etc...
Second, EGT's are a huge factor here when running a completly stock fuel system. Dan, i'll explain here.
From the factory, dodge ran these cars rich to be on the safe side. They run it rich because the stock turbo is so restrictive that it bottlenecks up and raises the EGT's. The excess fuel in the cylinders removes alot of this heat through heat exchange. What happens when you pull out fuel though is you get a much better A/F,b but also raising EGT's back up and increasing timing, a possible receipe for distaster. This can be to your advantage though if PROPERLY METERED. Rasiing EGT's will increase spool time in the turbo, making faster shifts and boost response. Increasing timing, will lower EGT's. IG you can find the perfect balance between these, then you make great power.
The problem is on the stock fuel system, there is not enough fuel to pull out to get enough timing to drastically lower EGT's, so as MO said, spike to 18ish and hold more to redline and your timing will increase more and egt's will lower.
last thing is.... the reason the car backfired when the AFC was set to 0, was because there was no effective clamp on the map, meaning your were overboosting. you need to pull some fuel out to run over 18psi, so tune safely, or bring your car over to N2MB/ME and we'll do it right.
L
Oh my, this thread is a mess.
First, doing second gear pulls is like having sex with an apple. You can do it yes, but it far more painful than necessary. If you are going to do it, do it right.
so whats the proper way to make love to an apple?:D
remove core... insert into hole. Pretty simple concept actually. I prefer pie though
And the best way to get the car to hold more then 15lbs to redline, thats what my car is holding now and i have all the ic pipes t bolt clamped.
boost at redline isnt going to make that much of a difference right now, but in the future, an electronic boost controller or a PTP spring of the WGA helps to hold more boost
okay, i'm lookin to up the boost and after reading this i'm a little hesitant now. i'm gonna list my mods(they haven't been done yet, everything sitting in my kitchen cuz i'm lazy), i just wanna know if i'm missing something you guys would recommend so the engine doesn't go BOOM!
Greddy EBC, Apexi Safc II, MSD tach driver, aem uego, walbro FP, and the perrin exhaust is being shipped.
i'm lookin to spike 18-20 and hopefully hold 16-17 to redline but i don't think it's possible with the stock wga, i'm also runnin a s0 ecm. any suggestions?
hozay09
05-09-06, 11:37 PM
okay, i'm lookin to up the boost and after reading this i'm a little hesitant now. i'm gonna list my mods(they haven't been done yet, everything sitting in my kitchen cuz i'm lazy), i just wanna know if i'm missing something you guys would recommend so the engine doesn't go BOOM!
Greddy EBC, Apexi Safc II, MSD tach driver, aem uego, walbro FP, and the perrin exhaust is being shipped.
i'm lookin to spike 18-20 and hopefully hold 16-17 to redline but i don't think it's possible with the stock wga, i'm also runnin a s0 ecm. any suggestions?
you have some pretty decent basics. Next two mods I suggest you getting are a mopar stg 1 pcm & Kinetic wga. After that, I suggest a larger fmic, bigger injectors, fuel return line & aftermarket bov & intake (not necessary, but nice to have)
you have some pretty decent basics. Next two mods I suggest you getting are a mopar stg 1 pcm & Kinetic wga. After that, I suggest a larger fmic, bigger injectors, fuel return line & aftermarket bov & intake (not necessary, but nice to have)
i had an AGP wga on order but jsc speed returned my money saying the wgas were on backorder so that went out the window for now, i've heard that s1 is a waste of money. i was gonna get it but 400 for a pcm? correct me if i'm wrong but i think there are guys getting decent power from the stock ecm, more than s1 i think.
hozay09
05-09-06, 11:45 PM
i had an AGP wga on order but jsc speed returned my money saying the wgas were on backorder so that went out the window for now, i've heard that s1 is a waste of money. i was gonna get it but 400 for a pcm? correct me if i'm wrong but i think there are guys getting decent power from the stock ecm, more than s1 i think.
waste of money? :bs:Best investment you can get when adding aftermarket parts. $335 is the price on them. Keep the stock pcm, get codes. Codes = pain in the ass. Not worth it.
btw, the Kinetic WGA holds better boost. I still sell both though.
waste of money? :bs:Best investment you can get when adding aftermarket parts. $335 is the price on them. Keep the stock pcm, get codes. Codes = pain in the ass. Not worth it.
btw, the Kinetic WGA holds better boost. I still sell both though.
oooooh really? how much, where's the shop? and yes CELs = big headaches, migranes i can definitely do without.
hozay09
05-10-06, 12:00 AM
oooooh really? how much, where's the shop? and yes CELs = big headaches, migranes i can definitely do without.
How much for.... Our shop is in Port Monmouth, NJ Exit 117. All of our ordering goes through myself if you need any help. DiMeLo LoKo
how much for the wga? kinetics right? 117 off the parkway?
hozay09
05-10-06, 10:44 PM
Contact me privately. We've already hijacked this thread enough.
how bad is pulling timing...right now im spiking 18psi sometimes 19 for a second but hold 18 for a rew k rms then it drops to around 16/15/14 at redline....I havent installed my map clamp and my dyno was low at 248whp and 280wtq on an dyno jet....
Mods are as follows:
STG 1
3" turbo back
AGP WGA
Hallman MBC
EDIT Mopar Rice plate-thats leaking i think
I soon will install the map clamp and plan on getting a PTP fuel mod in a month or so.....
A/f's are 11.6-11.9 in all gears
boostedneon04
05-11-06, 10:49 PM
how bad is pulling timing...right now im spiking 18psi sometimes 19 for a second but hold 18 for a rew k rms then it drops to around 16/15/14 at redline....I havent installed my map clamp and my dyno was low at 248whp and 280wtq on an dyno jet....
Mods are as follows:
STG 1
3" turbo back
AGP WGA
Hallman MBC
EDIT Mopar Rice plate-thats leaking i think
I soon will install the map clamp and plan on getting a PTP fuel mod in a month or so.....
A/f's are 11.6-11.9 in all gears
remember u dynoed at pampena which is an awd dynoso ur numbers are going to be lower..i think its like 20lbs or sumthing when it starts to pull timing without the proper fuel mods
hozay09
05-11-06, 10:51 PM
Why are you folks boosting so damn high? Everyone needs to understand that without water injector or proper fuel management, boosting over 16psi on stg 1 injectors is just worthless.
I'm pulling 16 to redline and it pulls like a raped ape up top. Higher then that without the proper mods will just mean timing being pulled or worse.
no fuel tuning spiking 19-20. holding 17-18. then drop to 13-14 right at redline.
my top end is amazing. no fuel real fuel mods yet. but soon safc will be messed with then ill give another report.
Why are you folks boosting so damn high? Everyone needs to understand that without water injector or proper fuel management, boosting over 16psi on stg 1 injectors is just worthless.
I'm pulling 16 to redline and it pulls like a raped ape up top. Higher then that without the proper mods will just mean timing being pulled or worse.
Maybe I'll take your advice and do a 16spike and hold to redline, when i get the PTP fuel mod and install the clamp ill have fun with higher boost....right now tho the car feels like theres more in her but shes loosing it somewhere...good thing jay is having the boost leak test so ill figure out if theres a boost leak....
My main question was are my 11.9 A/F at redline safe for daily driving...I only WOT a few times a week...I mainly baby it...GAS owns me!
hozay09
05-11-06, 11:54 PM
no fuel tuning spiking 19-20. holding 17-18. then drop to 13-14 right at redline.
my top end is amazing. no fuel real fuel mods yet. but soon safc will be messed with then ill give another report.
Meanwhile your EGT's are through the roof and you will be ordering up your gt3071r alot sooner then you think.
Maybe I'll take your advice and do a 16spike and hold to redline, when i get the PTP fuel mod and install the clamp ill have fun with higher boost....right now tho the car feels like theres more in her but shes loosing it somewhere...good thing jay is having the boost leak test so ill figure out if theres a boost leak....
My main question was are my 11.9 A/F at redline safe for daily driving...I only WOT a few times a week...I mainly baby it...GAS owns me!
Trust in what I say. Do it safely and do it right. Up the boost? Up your fuel. Simple as that. People nowadays are greedy and want more without compensating. I see this all the time when car's come in the shop. Then when they leave and boost the proper way, their excited knowing they really didn't need to overboost.
11.9 a/f should be ok but I wouldn't recommend it ALL the time.
yeah like i said i only WOT once and a blue moon gas is expensive but ill probably drop the boost down this weekend
no fuel tuning spiking 19-20. holding 17-18. then drop to 13-14 right at redline.
my top end is amazing. no fuel real fuel mods yet. but soon safc will be messed with then ill give another report.
you better upgrade your fuel if you plan on boosting that high and pulling fuel with the safc. i'd also upgrade to a 3" o2 housing and w/a inj so egts wouldn't be as high compared to the stock o2
boostedneon04
05-13-06, 01:58 AM
Why are you folks boosting so damn high? Everyone needs to understand that without water injector or proper fuel management, boosting over 16psi on stg 1 injectors is just worthless.
I'm pulling 16 to redline and it pulls like a raped ape up top. Higher then that without the proper mods will just mean timing being pulled or worse.
rpc called me and said he lowered the boost to 17 and it pulls soo much harder now then it did before
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