What is wrong?

[GotWhat?]

Well besides the shitty driving...

05 SRT-4 Stage 1,agp wga,aem short ram,agp bov conv,plugs gapped at 40.

14.3 @ 97 w/a 2.4 60'

Went to the track,my brother was running high 14's(his very first time running at a track ever),so I didn't think much of it
He got a headache and I took it for a run. And ran the above time. Which was better by half a second than any time he had run that night. Well I will get to the point,why are the traps so low? Cool night,low altitude,car itself was cool. WGA is going strait to the housing with a bleed,spiking 17 holding 15. I would assume with this setup the traps would be over 100,in the past he would be right on the bumper of my car and it runs vvv. So whats going on?

[StreetRaceGN]

What were your shift points? Do you have a scan tool to log the runs? I drove a friend's SRT to 13.8@101 and it was mostly stock with a few bolt-ons. I was powershifting about 400 RPMs before redline. He had an adjustable FPR, was a little rich so I adjusted FP to get the o2s down to where I thought the car was running right. Before I made the adjustments and made a pass in the car he only trapped 98 MPH.

[Dominion]

Its a power problem, no question about that. PCM is pulling the timing for some reason. Either the boost is going over 18 PSI and the PCM is pulling your timing or your getting detonation that is also pulling the timing.

[GotWhat?]

I'm wondering if its that safeway gas my brother buys. I guess I will make some pulls to see what its boosting,maybe it changed.

[GotWhat?]

What were your shift points? Do you have a scan tool to log the runs? I drove a friend's SRT to 13.8@101 and it was mostly stock with a few bolt-ons. I was powershifting about 400 RPMs before redline. He had an adjustable FPR, was a little rich so I adjusted FP to get the o2s down to where I thought the car was running right. Before I made the adjustments and made a pass in the car he only trapped 98 MPH.I was shifting at about 5900,a hair before redline. It just feels like a dog once it gets into third,it didn't use to feel that way. I don't power shift it,but I kinda half power shift I let off the gas but not all the way,it keeps boost when i shift. Also we reset the ecu before we left for the track,not sure if that had an effect or not. I didn't want him to but he was determined to do it.

[StreetRaceGN]

Best thing to do is log the run with a scantool, and watch your o2s and knock retard. Make sure your bro didn't put 87 octane in the car...Try mixing a little 100 octane u/l in at the track(3-4 gallons), if it helps you're fighting detonation.

[psi chick]

1. get rid of the bleed. you should be smacked in the head for having it on there.
2. that 60' is horrible, that's a problem right there.
3. leak test
4. re-torque knock sensor
5. reset ecu
6. go back to track

[DrEdSrT4]

Gotwhat there are 2 possible problems.. 1 he has a boost leak, which is very possible and 2 you have finally come to realize HOW HARD it is to actually drive that car lol. Dont feel bad, i have the same mods as ur bro has exactly and ran my best time of 14.5@97 and 99 with a 2.6 60' lol i only got 2 passes cuz Etown was being gay but.. in all reality i should have been trapping 101 102, BUT i notice that your bother does not have motor mounts does he? Wheel hop from what ive gathered SLOWS down trap speeds.. Tire spin gives you higher trap speeds.. i had no mounts and shit tires.. i was wheel hopping like crazy and getting low traps.. i dont have a boost leak, im spikin 18 holding 15. Welcome to the wonderful world of driving a FWD car with a lot of power.

Your 60's speak for themselves 2.4.. drop it to 2.2's and you'll see 13.9s 13.8s @ about 101 102

[GotWhat?]

1. get rid of the bleed. you should be smacked in the head for having it on there.
2. that 60' is horrible, that's a problem right there.
3. leak test
4. re-torque knock sensor
5. reset ecu
6. go back to trackDo i just take the bleed off,or get a boost controler?

[DrEdSrT4]

Do i just take the bleed off,or get a boost controler?

dude get a boost controller for 30-60 bucks used or new dont matter depending on the type it is. Set the car to spike 17 or 18 and hold 15 thats what mine is and it runs great

[GotWhat?]

Gotwhat there are 2 possible problems.. 1 he has a boost leak, which is very possible and 2 you have finally come to realize HOW HARD it is to actually drive that car lol. Dont feel bad, i have the same mods as ur bro has exactly and ran my best time of 14.5@97 and 99 with a 2.6 60' lol i only got 2 passes cuz Etown was being gay but.. in all reality i should have been trapping 101 102, BUT i notice that your bother does not have motor mounts does he? Wheel hop from what ive gathered SLOWS down trap speeds.. Tire spin gives you higher trap speeds.. i had no mounts and shit tires.. i was wheel hopping like crazy and getting low traps.. i dont have a boost leak, im spikin 18 holding 15. Welcome to the wonderful world of driving a FWD car with a lot of power.

Your 60's speak for themselves 2.4.. drop it to 2.2's and you'll see 13.9s 13.8s @ about 101 102 As far as the 60's go,I it was my one and only run,so i wasn't expecting to cut anything all that great. It just seems odd because there was a girl there in a bone stock one and she cut a 14.0 at 100,and we cut a 97 mph with 5 psi more. When I first installed the parts the car pulled like crazy,doesn't seem the same anymore. It feels modded though 1st and second,and then it feels stock through 3rd and 4th. I think it is pulling timing. I would have been happy with anything over 100,but 95-97 is just weak. And yes it is hard to launch fwd,especialy when you just got out of a rwd on dr's that you just pop the clutch and go :D

[GotWhat?]

dude get a boost controller for 30-60 bucks used or new dont matter depending on the type it is. Set the car to spike 17 or 18 and hold 15 thats what mine is and it runs greatThats what it does with the bleed.

[DrEdSrT4]

Thats what it does with the bleed.

its ghetto.. ghetto mods = teh ghey

Idk just lower those 60's and the car will be runnin good times.. get radials if you got the money, fix that problem real quick, as long as you got mounts 2

EDIT: well if you can notice the difference in the car then id say boost leak. You shouldnt be pulling timing with only 17 psi.. you have Stage 1 right? Start checking every hose and tie it down.. check your IC piping too my clamps always blow off. How is the WGA holding up? When i 1st put my WGA and BC on i noticed my car felt slow as balls in 3rd gear and 4th gear.. i didnt know why. It was boosting right.. but when i took the MBC off the WGA was only holding like 8 psi. Can also check that

[kgmdawg84]

LEAK TEST!!! major issue with any modded srt... leak test, ill bet you have a leak somewhere

[GotWhat?]

LEAK TEST!!! major issue with any modded srt... leak test, ill bet you have a leak somewhereHow do I do that? :D

[psi chick]

read this: Leak Tester (http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ICtester.html). it will explain how to build a leak tester and use it.

a bleed does not really do the same thing as it's extremly difficult to control boost with a bleed. not to mention that you have a dinky piece of platic sitting next to a really hot turbo....that's just asking for a problem. don't be cheap. buy a mbc (they're like $20, you can even build one at home depot for less) and at least have the piece of mind that the car will run properly and you don't have to worry about massive spikes because you can't control what's going on under the hood.

that 60' is killing your times, so that would be a very good place to work on. i'm betting that there's a leak somewhere in the car, so leak test it and tighten up those clamps. also try resetting the ecu. if the car is spiking too high then the ecu is going to retard timing to preserve itself (the ecu's #1 job - protect the motor). by using the bleed the boost is not really under control, so it's very possible that the ecu is yanking timing because of it.

[GotWhat?]

Ok I just went for a run. In second gear it was spiking 15 and dropping to 13. In third it was spiking to 16 and dropping to 14. So I'm thinking maybe reving it to redline is what hurt the traps. And the fact that its not boosting as high is why it didn't feel as fast. So its definatly not pulling timing at those levels. So the next problem is where its loosing boost. I'm gonna tighten all the clamps and see if that doesn't bring it back up. Then if that doesn't help I"m going to re adjust the WGA. I will try and talk him into a boost controller.

Also at low rpm at WOT it is sputtering and cutting out,even after I regaped the plugs. The plugs now have 7.5k on them so I'm going to put some new ones in there and see if that cures it.

Does that sound about right?

[GotWhat?]

read this: Leak Tester (http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ICtester.html). it will explain how to build a leak tester and use it.

a bleed does not really do the same thing as it's extremly difficult to control boost with a bleed. not to mention that you have a dinky piece of platic sitting next to a really hot turbo....that's just asking for a problem. don't be cheap. buy a mbc (they're like $20, you can even build one at home depot for less) and at least have the piece of mind that the car will run properly and you don't have to worry about massive spikes because you can't control what's going on under the hood.

that 60' is killing your times, so that would be a very good place to work on. i'm betting that there's a leak somewhere in the car, so leak test it and tighten up those clamps. also try resetting the ecu. if the car is spiking too high then the ecu is going to retard timing to preserve itself (the ecu's #1 job - protect the motor). by using the bleed the boost is not really under control, so it's very possible that the ecu is yanking timing because of it.If I can't knock out the leaks by tightening the clamps I will make one of those leak testers.

[psi chick]

you will have no idea if you got rid of the leaks by just tightening the clamps. the only way to tell is to actually leak test the car. just becuase you got rid of one major leak and the car feels a little better doesn't mean that there aren't 3 other smaller leaks that are still there......

[DiMaggio]

1. get rid of the bleed. you should be smacked in the head for having it on there.
2. that 60' is horrible, that's a problem right there.
3. leak test
4. re-torque knock sensor
5. reset ecu
6. go back to track

:werd:

#2 & #3 fo' sho'

[DiMaggio]

you will have no idea if you got rid of the leaks by just tightening the clamps. the only way to tell is to actually leak test the car. just becuase you got rid of one major leak and the car feels a little better doesn't mean that there aren't 3 other smaller leaks that are still there......

Yup and you can almost guarantee the PCV is leaking too. A check valve will cure this - I picked up about 2 psi after installing c/v. Like psi chick says: leak test first, fix leaks and leak test again.

[GotWhat?]

Well,I took the easy way out and tightened all the clamps,and re adjusted the WGA. Its got the power back now,but it still sputters at low rpm under WOT(under 3k). I tried gapping the plugs from .045-.040 and it didn't help,put in new plugs,same thing. Should I go even lower on the gap? Like .035?
Also I haven't put a catch can on the car yet,and it was leaking out of the piping coming from the intercooler,the clamp was kinda loose. Could the oil have messed up a certain sensor causing it to sputter down low?
I know you guys want me to buy a scan tool,do a leak test etc. But its not my car and I'm having a hard time convincing my brother to buy these things. If it was my car I would have it all. So don't think that I"m trying to avoid your input. Its very much appreciated. I just want to get this thing running smooth so he will stop his bitching. I talked him into buying the car and told him these parts would work fine on his car,thats the only reason I feel kinda responsable for getting it to run right. Other wise I would tell him to tuff shit until he buys the test equipment.

[GotWhat?]

Never mind I reread my original thread on this,I'm gonna try a lower gap.

[DrEdSrT4]

dude.. dont go WOT at low RPM too 16 psi at 2-3k rpms IS NOT good for the car, my car will do the same thing, pretty sure the sputtering is timing being pulled by im not 100% sure on that one

[GotWhat?]

dude.. dont go WOT at low RPM too 16 psi at 2-3k rpms IS NOT good for the car, my car will do the same thing, pretty sure the sputtering is timing being pulled by im not 100% sure on that oneYeah I put the gap at 35 and still does it. Trust me,when I drive the car I have no problems,I don't boost it unless I"m going all out,and if I'm going all out I start at the right rpm 3500+. It's just my brothers driving style,he doesn't necisarily go wot,but he gives it enough throttle to get the boost to spike pretty high at low rpm. I give up,I think you are right,I think the ecu is pulling timing or somthing.Right at about 3k it totaly changes and stops doing it. Oh well ferk it. He can live with it,at least its fast now.

[BlackDragon]

Do you have the stock wires on there? Is there any white residue on the wires? or any cracks? Can you get an ohmmeter and ohm out the wires?

Reason being, if it isn't the plugs it just might be some other part of the ignition system and I'd take a real good look at the wires...

[GotWhat?]

Do you have the stock wires on there? Is there any white residue on the wires? or any cracks? Can you get an ohmmeter and ohm out the wires?

Reason being, if it isn't the plugs it just might be some other part of the ignition system and I'd take a real good look at the wires... I can check for resistance(ohm meter) but they look good,are they just naturaly junk? The car is still pretty new and the plugs still look it. I didn't see any white like its arking or anything.

[DrEdSrT4]

I doubt ur plugs will be bad after only having the car for as long as ur brother does.. after 30k miles my stock wires were still fine

[psi chick]

don't rule out crappy wires. my plugs and wires were shot at 2500 miles.

i would seriously suggest trying to get your brother to change his driving habbits. going wot or even giving it enough gas to spike high at low rpm is very stressful on the turbo, and can cause serious problems eventually. this is not good for the car at all. if he wants power and he's below 3k, tell him to downshift and all the power he can get will be there. it's much better for the car. stop being lazy and drive the car right!

i don't see the need to buy a scan tool or anything like that. but i still definetly say get that bleed off there and get a mbc. they're very cheap and will help you be able to control the boost much better than a bleed will.

[NYYDYNASTY]

my original plugs lasted me about 7-8,000 miles. My #4 wire lasted me about 15,000 before REQUIRING to change it LOL

[DrEdSrT4]

Didnt they tell you at the dealership B4 you bought your car.. "PLEASE REFRAIN FROM CHEWING ON YOUR SPARK PLUG WIRES" i still have my stock ones perfect condition 30k miles on em

[BlackDragon]

check them with an ohmmeter, I bet you 20 bucks they are not perfect

[DrEdSrT4]

prolly, but its not the reason for the jumpy car.. i have 8.5mm's and my car will still bounce if i go WOT at low rpm.. say in like 4th gear under 3k.. its rare i ever do it, however i do catch myself going with PTB on the highway when im trying to pass some1.. i usually catch myself tho

[StreetRaceGN]

Try this for a MBC: http://www.rjcracing.com/RJC_Buick_Products/BoostC/boostc.html I've installed at least 4 of these and it pretty much eliminated all boost spike on the different cars. I've found that getting your boost set with a controller and minimum tension on the WGA gives the best control. Remember that when you shorten the arm on the WGA you're removing some of the range of travel, and the WG puck may not open enough to control spike. I usually like about 1/8" tension on the WGA rod. The MBC I linked to tends to help spool time as well, since it keeps the WGA from moving until the setpoint is reached.