BWM Advanced Driving Skills School - Oct 22

[htheduck]

Folks,

Both Johnnyfive and I just came back from a day at NHIS where the White Mountain Chapter of BMW car club sponsored an Advanced Driving Skills School. This is suggested before anyone gets any seat time on a track with this particular chapter. I would also recommend anyone take a driving skills class for just overall general information-to get the opportunity to 'learn' your own vehicle.

The day was a bit gloomy-but a lot of fun. Johnny was kind enough to give me a ride up since I was volunteering that day with other instructors.

The agenda was the following (after dividing the group into two):
-constant radius turning: understeer/oversteer
-skid pad: figure eights with two vehicles: TTO, drift, driving the line
-braking: threshold braking
-lane changing: weight transfer

Attached are some vids/pics from this event. Please post up any questions you might have.

http://www.maximumcars.net/hosted/htheduck/uploaded/group.jpg
http://www.maximumcars.net/hosted/htheduck/uploaded/m3skid.jpg
http://www.maximumcars.net/hosted/htheduck/uploaded/vetteskid.jpg
http://www.maximumcars.net/hosted/htheduck/uploaded/johnny.jpg

Vids (have been reduced in quality from original format for file size):
Johnnyfive on skidpad (http://www.maximumcars.net/hosted/htheduck/uploaded/srt4_skidpad.wmv)
M3 and Vette on skidpad (http://www.maximumcars.net/hosted/htheduck/uploaded/m3_vette_skidpad.wmv)
Lane changing1 (http://www.maximumcars.net/hosted/htheduck/uploaded/lane1.wmv)
Lane changing2 (http://www.maximumcars.net/hosted/htheduck/uploaded/lane2.wmv)
Lane changing3 (http://www.maximumcars.net/hosted/htheduck/uploaded/lane3.wmv)

[johnnyfive]

ahhh good stuff. I wanted to have pictures or something so that it wasn't just some dry rambling.

Pretty much the school teaches you the basics of "machine taming". How your car acts near and at it's limits and what you do to get it to the limit and keep in control of your car.

Despite my reaserch and experience I took some very valuable things home from this course.

First thing was how to get the car to wickedly oversteer. Of course howard didn't get videos of the three lane change passes where I literally slid sideways into the lane. Though he did get the footage during a figure 8 exercise where the instructor would the e-brake out of the corners to get the car to oversteer.


first time I oversteered bad in the lane change I took out 2 cones.

The second awesome and I didn't hit any cones. Just slid perfectly into the lane.

the third I took out three cones. :twak:

But I knew what happened to cause the oversteer and perhaps use it at an auto-x to rotate the car before a very tight corner (lot's of those in my region).

Other than shifting the weight around (or using the e-brake) it's just a pig. It'll understeer everywhere espescially when wet.

If anyone has an interest in learning more about how there car acts I'd definately recommend it. Your car may have surprises in store for you. Espescially if the suspensions modified.

[DaFlyyOnDaWall]

how much does a course like that cost?

[htheduck]

The Advanced Driving Skills School is $85 per Entry/Driver, and is required for novices. I could not find a local (NY/NJ/CT) chapter that did the same thing or had the same requirements...so I went to NH, besides I have a long time friend up there that instructs w/BMWCCA.

For more info:
http://www.wmc-bmwcca.org/ (New Hampshire Chapter)
http://www.bmwcca.org/

[fourbanger]

I think it came out to like 85 dollars.

[DaFlyyOnDaWall]

i'll be ready for next season.

[htheduck]

Sounds good Beau. I was all alone this year. Pencil in May for Watkins Glen.

[DaFlyyOnDaWall]

true

[fourbanger]

Hey howard.

We should get a trek/voyage together im sure we could find a few good roads between here and ny to cruise on for a couple miles.

tristate does it and im salty i saw the thread too late.

[htheduck]

Sorry I'm not understanding your thread...

You want a trek/voyage with me in NY to cruise for a few miles on a few good roads?

What is tristate? And they trek through NY?

Why do you have excess sodium?

I'm sorry you saw the thread too late, but apparently you forgot all the PM's we traded before this track event.

[fourbanger]

Sorry I'm not understanding your thread...
You want a trek/voyage with me in NY to cruise for a few miles on a few good roads?
What is tristate? And they trek through NY?
Why do you have excess sodium?
I'm sorry you saw the thread too late, but apparently you forgot all the PM's we traded before this track event.
:D yeeeaa
That was kinda hard to understand. I didnt forget any of the pm's, to be honest with you I didnt have a handle on my car at that point.I decided it was better to learn how to drive my car before i raced it/took a class on how to drive it. And im not sure but it may have been in teh shop. Excuses excuses i know. Ill be very active once the next season rolls around. Just watching those videos makes me want to join the fun.
I am interested in running some laps, actions speak louder.... blah blah blah. Sorry if you feel like i blew you off.. a pm stating i was no longer intersted would have been appropriate. Sorry Howard.

[htheduck]

I decided it was better to learn how to drive my car before i raced it/took a class on how to drive it.
No worries. However, THAT WAS THE CLASS-it wasn't a track day. If you recall that was the pre-course for going onto the track with BMWcca. Johnnyfive is in all the videos-and he had a good time. I was helping chase down cones and schmoozing with instructors (and attempting to schmooz a cute female in a convertible 325i who was attending the safety school). :cool:

[fourbanger]

No worries. However, THAT WAS THE CLASS-it wasn't a track day. If you recall that was the pre-course for going onto the track with BMWcca. Johnnyfive is in all the videos-and he had a good time. I was helping chase down cones and schmoozing with instructors (and attempting to schmooz a cute female in a convertible 325i who was attending the safety school). :cool:
Oh im most definately ready to actually attend whenever there is another one.

I feel like i could do without it but im on a constant quest for knowledge and no better way to learn. I understand what your saying about it being a class. I dunno im kinda weird like that i dont like not being good at what im doing. I had the car for about 2 weeks at that point.

On a lighter note.. you got any vids of you wiping out?? id like to see how hard you have to push it w/ suspension mods to get her to break loose.

[htheduck]

On a lighter note.. you got any vids of you wiping out?? id like to see how hard you have to push it w/ suspension mods to get her to break loose.
I do not have any vids of me wiping out. I only have this off course movie (old) from when I drove Pocono. Everyone likes it cause flag station one owned me.

Off course (http://www.maximumcars.net/hosted/htheduck/uploaded/offcourse.wmv)

As for breaking loose with suspension mods or not, that's easy. I have plenty of suggestions to help your car "break loose"-let me know if you want me to list them here. ;)

[fourbanger]

Hhahaha im pretty sure i can break her loose. But if you have some suggestions on how to run it close to "the break" point that would be nice. I know tire tone is one thing you can hear them screaming for dear life.
I dunno ipp's are gonna be my first suspension mod. Would sway bars make a difference if i were to go that route instead of waiting for the 1000 dollar investment???

[htheduck]

Knowing when your car will drive off the road is a matter of experience. I cannot give you any suggestions on how to run it close to the 'break point'...sorry.

I cannot tell you how to spend you money either, but sway bars can make a difference in handling over stock.

[fourbanger]

I cannot tell you how to spend you money either, but sway bars can make a difference in handling over stock.
I sure hope so.. i dunno i guess its kinda reduntant to ask for advice your far from stock suspension.

[fourbanger]

Eventually ill make it out to some more meets ive been pretty busy after work lately but i dunno. Once i get her back in working condition ill be up for treks to aviation plaza and etc... but for now im gonna try to stay in pa it smells better here anyway :D

[htheduck]

I sure hope so.. i dunno i guess its kinda reduntant to ask for advice your far from stock suspension.
Asking me questions is never redundant-ask away! My suspension IS stock.
4 bars both top and bottom is all I bolted on :)

[fourbanger]

four bars top and bottom?? strut bars, front and rear? sway bars front and rear?? thats it

[htheduck]

Yes, that's it. The two sway bars are +2mm each or so? (PT & ACR combo)
Oh-and two bushings: the stronger (frame) ones that come with the Mopar tension struts. The struts and springs are stock currently.